May 16, 2012

Should Christians celebrate the death of Osama bin Laden? GodDiscussion investigates

Celebrations are prevalent in the United States today upon hearing the news of the death of Osama bin Laden. Chants of "USA!" "USA!" and the singing of the national anthem has been televised from New York City, the site of 9/11, and the White House.

However, the Christian community online seems confused about this question of whether Christians ought to be celebrating Osama bin Laden's death.  On the blog site Ragamuffin Soul, 134 comments were added through the early morning hours after the poster asked this very question:

Chant USA USA USA USA!
Or
Celebrate the death of Osama Bin Laden at all?

I’ll admit. I slapped a few high fives to some cops in the arena tonight when I heard.
Then while walking to the bus I wondered what my reaction should be.
Maybe I’m right. Maybe not.

What’s your response to Osama’s death?
How should Christians respond to Osama’s death?

Responses were as follows:

Blaine 2 May 2011 at 1:25 am:

Struggling with this myself. posted a facebook message a little while ago something to the effect of “2000 yrs ago, there was a murderous terrorist named Saul. Then he met Jesus, planted churches, and wrote most of the new testament. I get not losing sleep over tonight’s news, but celebrating that a guy didn’t meet Jesus and is now in hell…really?”
Then I deleted it. Because I’m still struggling with this myself.

Mel 2 May 2011 at 3:22 am:

Thank you for your heart and insight Blaine. I know the Lord is grieving because I, in all my selfishness, am grieving over a murderer. But then, it takes one to know one, I guess. I would know. Jesus was on that cross for me, just as much as my enemy. And it is ONLY by His grace that I do not turn and curse Him and die.

Had Osama turned to Christ, there would have been more rejoicing in Heaven over him coming to Christ, than the rest of us proclaiming our innocence. (Lk 15:7)

Steve 2 May 2011 at 1:32 am:

My opinion: I think it’s appropriate to have a feeling a justice served and closure to the 9/11 tragedy, and to feel compassion for those directly involved: NYPD, FDNY, etc in their elation. But I think the nationalistic celebrating is over the top. At the end of the day, by all appearances, a soul just entered eternal damnation – something that should give us all pause.

Proverbs 24:17-18 (New Living Translation)

17 Don’t rejoice when your enemies fall;
don’t be happy when they stumble.
18 For the Lord will be displeased with you
and will turn his anger away from them.

Luke 2 May 2011 at 1:33 am:

Justice is biblical, and justice was served today.

Isaiah 10:1-4

Crystal Renaud 2 May 2011 at 2:10 pm #

when celebration is done boastfully. what i saw last night on tv outside the whitehouse and NYC were people drenched in arrogance—not celebration. yes, an evil man is now dead and the world is better for it. but those people on tv last night looked like idiots.

23 “Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign Lord. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live.” Ezekiel 18:23

Mike Huckabee is probably representative of the evangelical response in his statement issued this morning.

"It is unusual to celebrate a death, but today Americans and decent people the world over cheer the news that madman, murderer and terrorist Osama Bin Laden is dead. The leader of Al Qaeda— responsible for the deaths of 3000 innocent citizens on September 11, 2001, and whose maniacal hate is responsible for the deaths of thousands of US servicemen and women was killed by U.S. military. President Obama confirmed the announcement late last night. DNA tests confirmed his death and his body is in the possession of the U. S.

It has taken a long time for this monster to be brought to justice. Welcome to hell, bin Laden. Let us all hope that his demise will serve notice to Islamic radicals the world over that the United States will be relentless in tracking down and terminating those who would inflict terror, mayhem and death on any of our citizens."

Welcome to hell.   Huckabee, a former preacher, has been described by some in the media as "tabloid" for saying such a thing.  The blog "Unsettled Christianity" responded with this:

I do not not suppose that Love will Win for Osama Bin Laden…

Commenters on the site were not so agreeable:

Steve Douglas on May 2, 2011 – 9:24 am

How you can welcome someone to a place you yourself do not occupy?

 

KenLeonard :

Once again, I find myself glad that my efforts to help the Huckabee ’08 campaign failed …

 

The blog "Curious Presbyterian" noted a distinct difference between the Vatican response to bin Laden's death and Huckabee's when it noted with some disgust directed at Huckabee:

Vatican spokesman said: “Faced with the death of a man, a Christian never rejoices, but reflects on the serious responsibility of each and every one of us before God and before man, and hopes and commits himself so that no event be an opportunity for further growth of hatred, but for peace.”Mike Huckabee said “Welcome to hell, bin Laden.”

The Reverend James Martin, S.J. was there at Ground Zero when 9/11 happened.

As a Christian, though, I cannot rejoice at the death of a human being, no matter how monstrous he was.[emphasis ours]On the morning of Sept. 11 2001, I was working at my desk at America magazine in Manhattan. My mother, who lives in Philadelphia, called me to tell me that a plane had hit the World Trade Center. When I ran out of my office and looked down Sixth Avenue, I could see the towers smoldering, inky black smoke pouring out of their tops. Already sirens were blaring, and men and women were running through the streets weeping, frantically trying to make calls on cell phones to loved ones.

The next few days were a horrible blur for me, and for all New Yorkers. For all Americans. On the night of Sept. 11, I worked at Chelsea Piers in New York, along with firefighters, rescue workers and chaplains. We awaited survivors who never came. On the morning and afternoon of Sept. 12, I sat with numbed family members in a large room at the New School in downtown Manhattan, poring through hospital lists of survivors, of whom there were almost none. Then, on Sept. 13, while working at Chelsea Piers, a police officer offered me a ride to Ground Zero, then called simply "the site." There I spent the next few days and weeks, in between my assignments at work, and along with other Jesuits, ministering to rescue workers amid the smoldering and stinking wreckage, in some places still in flames, before the mass grave. We walked over the awful detritus of the attacks; we prayed with firefighters who had lost friends; we counseled EMTs who had seen horrible things; we celebrated Mass in the rubble; and we emerged covered in the gray dust of Ground Zero every day.

So I am not blind to the death and destruction caused by Osama bin Laden.

Yet Christians are in the midst of the Easter Season, when Jesus, the innocent one, not only triumphantly rose from the dead but, in his earthly life, forgave his executioners from the cross, in the midst of excruciating pain. Forgiveness is the hardest of all Christian acts. (Love, by comparison, is easier.) It is also, according to Jesus, something that is meant to have no limit. No boundaries. Peter once asked him how often he was supposed to forgive. Seven times? "Not seven times," answered Jesus, "but, I tell you, seventy-seven times." In other words, times without number. "Forgive your brother or sister from your heart," he said. Judgment and punishment, says Jesus, is up to God. [Emphasis ours]

So the question is whether the Christian can forgive a murderer, a mass murderer, even — as in the case of Osama bin Laden — a coordinator of mass murder across the globe. I'm not sure I would be able to do this, particularly if I had lost a loved one. But as with other "life" issues, we cannot overlook what Jesus asks of us, hard as it is to comprehend. Or to do.

For this is a "life" issue as surely as any other. The Christian is not simply in favor of life for the unborn, for the innocent, for those we care for, for our families and friends, for our fellow citizens, for our fellow church members or even for those whom we consider good, but for all. All life is sacred because God created all life. This is what lies behind Jesus's most difficult command: "I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." [emphasis ours]

The questions will continue and they should.  What exactly is the Christian mission?  This is the question that is central to US Christians today.  No one knows the mind of God.  No one knows if Osama bin Laden is in hell.  No one knows. Pope John Paul II forgave the man who tried to assassinate him.

Christianity Today notes the confusion over what exactly Christians should do:

It wasn't long before some Christians began tweeting about Rob Bell's ideas by wondering whether Osama bin Laden is in hell. Here's a sample of some other Christian pastors, bloggers, tweeters' reactions on Twitter along the themes of celebration/justice:

Derek Webb: don't celebrate death, celebrate justice

Jared Wilson "the LORD had made them rejoice over their enemies." (2 Chron. 20:27). #prooftextingiseasy #theologynotsomuch

Ed Stetzer: Now that bin Laden is gone, can we have our civil liberties back, send home the #TSA and restore the 4th Amendment?

Esther Fleece: What's up with Christians tweeting verses like they are fortune cookies? This is not a simple discussion.

Eugene Cho: May the world be united in pursuing peace. Blessed are the peacemakers.

Jordan Sekulow: Crank this up as you celebrate the termination of bin Laden http://t.co/N7K9X8u

Cameron Strang: I was with the president in the East Room 13 days ago with some Christian leaders. A tad less significant than what happened there tonight.

Caryn Rivadeneira: Proud to be an American. Proud of the US special forces. Glad to see justice served. Not a fan of the cheering crowds.

Abraham Piper: Osama Bin Laden is dead? I want to see the long-form death certificate.

Rachel Held Evans: Trying to keep in mind that how I respond to the death of my enemies says as much about me as it does about my enemies.

Mark Driscoll: The cheering crowds remind us that justice is glorious & comes ultimately through Jesus cross or hell. Justice wins http://ow.ly/4KUXP

Comments on this article also noted the confusion:

We should never celebrate the death of another human being. Certainly, feelings of relief are appropriate. However, I would argue that as a Christian we should never have felt anxious or revengeful in the first place. Although his death was of top priority in this war and consequently seen as a victory, Christians should remember that whether or not Osama was of evil nature, God created him. Let us not rejoice in taking the life of God's creation for that is savagry. Nor should we take pride in a nation; our citiizenship is in Heaven.

Posted by: Teresa at May 1, 2011

“I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.” – Mark Twain

Posted by: Mark Twain at May 1, 2011

This is a tough place to draw a line…on the one side, a man's life has been taken. On the other hand though, a man who murdered hundreds and led many to follow him in these killings is now no longer a threat- not only to the U.S. but to the world.

I feel at peace with this news; and while I will not cite a memory verse like a "fortune cookie," I will say that I believe God wants us as Christians to take a stand against evil; to support, protect and care for the poor and orphaned. To guard those who are unable to guard themselves. In this act, we have done that. I congratulate the men and women who served this country in bringing that man to justice.

I do however, not agree with the way one newscaster explained the news this evening…He said that vengeance has been served. I do believe that vengeance is the Lord's and that we shouldn't have solely been seeking Osama out in order to enact vengeance. Again, he needed to be stopped, so that his thoughtless genocide did not continue.

Posted by: Multnomah Mel at May 2, 2011

And finally, the Muslim response from the Washington Post:

“Everybody’s celebrating,” Jurdi said Monday as he talked to Mike Qader outside a Falls Church shopping center popular with Muslims. “This guy spoiled the reputation of the whole Islamic world.”

Qader, a Falls Church resident and native of Kuwait, said bin Laden’s death was good news: “Hopefully it puts the pressure on somebody else” other than Muslims.

Both leaders and regular Muslims stressed that they believe bin Laden was not a true Muslim and followers of the faith are thrilled to be rid of him.

America has touted itself as a "Christian nation."  Today is the day in which the eyes of the world are upon us, to see if, like our enemies, we rejoice in the death of another human being who did terrible things in the name of his God.  We have given lip service, and a lot of it, through the mouths of our politicians about how "Godly" we are.  When the rubber hits the road, and being Godly means being forgiving, we will today define ourselves by whether we act Christian, or not.

Dakota O'Leary

Dakota O'Leary is a freethinker, and often sassy, scholar of theology and literature. She got her Bachelor of Arts degree in English and Theology from the State University of New York College at Buffalo, and her Master of Arts degree in Theology and Literature from Antioch University-Midwest. She is a contributing writer focusing on eschatology, biblical prophecy, and general religious news. Dakota is a co-host of the God Discussion radio show, offering insight to the news stories of the week. We like to call her "our in-house Biblical prophecy expert" as her articles on eschatology have received over 200,000 views on God Discussion.

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  • http://www.goddiscussion.com admin

    Huckabee's remarks show that he is not presidential material, in my opinion. In dealing with religious extremism, I do not think that it would be diplomatic to make polarizing religious remarks.

    The celebrating is predictable; however I am uncomfortable with it.

    Deborah

    • http://www.houseofbetazed.com Mriana

      Well, he's not presidential material for liberal Xians and non-Christians, that is for sure, but his remarks show that it is human beings who condemn people, not a deity.

      As for the celebration, I'm not sure I understand it. This whole thing doesn't feel right on a variety of levels and it is not just the celebration that is happening either. I would voice my thoughts on all of this, but I'm afraid my thoughts would give the Religious Reich and any others not in favour of Obama, ideas. Something about it just feels like sensationalism at a time when things aren't going so great.

  • http://www.goddiscussion.com Dakota O'Leary

    I too feel uncomfortable with the celebrating. There is relief that he is gone–and horror at the spectacle of cheering crowds. I think today is a sobering day and it shows a certain barbarism to be openly celebrating as our enemies would do if such a thing, like when 9/11 happened to us, and some countries were openly celebrating. We were horrified at the celebration of the deaths of the victims then. I think bin Laden's life was sad, that led him to a path of death, really.

    • http://www.houseofbetazed.com Mriana

      My problem is, I am having difficulty believing Osama is really dead. We never saw the dead body nor have we've seen any DNA result yet either.

  • http://thejoyfulmystic.blogspot.com Sheri Lawson

    What a GREAT article! I've been baffling over the same question – how should I feel about this? To tell you the truth, I'm a little numb. I think this event is more symbolic than anything, and nothing has really changed, exept perhaps inside each of us.

  • http://www.goddiscussion.com admin

    I thought that the
    Vatican's remarks were appropriate and diplomatic.

  • http://artikeldb.dk Andreas

    i dont think it should be celebrated like a huge party kind. but i think it is okay to be happy about it!

    • Danny

      And it happened as they were coming, when David returned from killing the Philistine, that the women came out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul, with tambourines, with joy and with musical instruments.

      And t…he women sang as they played, and said, "Saul has slain his thousands. And David his ten thousands." (1 Samuel 18:6-7).

      Psalms 58:10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance; he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked, The righteous should rejoice because they love justice and hate evil, not people :-) We should be careful to not have a Holier than thou attitude and presume to be more loving than God, this Hitler had plenty of time to repent!!!

  • http://www.houseofbetazed.com Mriana

    Have we become societies that celebrate death and destruction? I don't know. I am finding all this, right down to Osama's supposed death from a shoot out, unbelievable. I see people celebrating, but I haven't seen any dead body. I'm from MO, where the motto is, "The Show Me" State. I'll believe it when I see it, but thing is, they supposedly dumped the body in the ocean. Why? I don't get it. I don't get any of the events in the last 24 hours. None of it makes any sense to me and as I said, if I voice my thoughts in their entirety as I try to solve this puzzle, I'm concerned someone will use them against Obama and I don't want that either. Something just does not feel right here and I don't know what it is.

    • Bill

      They dumped the body into the sea so that bin Laden's followers wouldn't make a shrine to him, and he was buried in accordance with Islamic law which says bodies have to be buried within 24 hours. He had a mullah preside over the burial service, and that's all there is to it. They have DNA evidence and NPR says they are releasing photos in a few days.

      • http://www.houseofbetazed.com Mriana

        Well, I guess that answers the question about why they dumped the body in the ocean, but it doesn't fill in the puzzle pieces of the rest of the situation. Maybe the pictures will be more convincing and not seem like something to make Obama look good, gain brownie points (which he will), or as a hero for the next election.

        I can see it now. It will go from "Oh you're just voting for him because he's Black" to "Oh you're voting for him just because he got Osama." *rolling eyes* Maybe, just maybe a person votes for someone because they think s/he is not only the best person to vote for, but they think that person shares their values and ideals. Few people seem to think about that one.

        • http://www.goddiscussion.com Dakota O'Leary

          This is something that certainly will not be resolved in terms of conspiracy theories or what have you, but for Christians, it seems the article has given people food for thought.

  • http://www.houseofbetazed.com Mriana

    It would seem someone else has similar thoughts to mine, but I have a whole lot more than just a concern about more Al Quida violence and alike. My thoughts go beyond this:
    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/chris_hedges_speaks_on_osama_bin_ladens_death_20110502/

    "I despair that we as a country, as Nietzsche understood, have become the monster that we are attempting to fight."

  • http://himalayan.us/blog/2011/05/02/should-christians-celebrate-that-usama-osama-bin-laden-is-dead wind

    I will defer to those who suffered the most loss. If they celebrate I will certainly not play judge, and I definitely will not start thumping them with 1 liners from the Bible.

  • Megan

    I believe we should rejoice that we have eliminated a threat and this has helped to protect us further. We should rejoice that our troops were not hurt and returned safely. I do not believe we should rejoice because someone is dead no matter how evil they may be. It is still a sad thing that someone had to die to make thi possible. We should pray that his followers have the opportunity to know our God and see the error of their ways that Binladin was unable to.

    • http://www.houseofbetazed.com Mriana

      Has it? Eliminated the threat and made us safer, that is.

  • http://www.houseofbetazed.com Mriana

    Wow! Maybe I should just voice my opinions on this, because even Randi Rhodes is voicing hers, which seemed to have also include some of mine:
    http://www.randirhodes.com/main.html

    1. Obama was having so many issues with the Reps., Birthers, Religious Reich etc

    2. His popularity was down, even among his supporters.

    3. He just announced that he is running for re-election.

    4. He recently pulled out the "long form" of his birth certificate for the Birthers.

    5. Suddenly Osama is said to be dead and they found him hiding out in a compound in the middle of some city or something like in Pakistan. (Randi pointed out that he was not in a cave, like originally stated before, which I had forgotten)

    6. During the election, Obama continued to insist we HAD to go into Pakistan, even though others in gov. were saying, we did not need to go into Pakistan.

    7. We go into Pakistan and right after Obama announces running again in 2012, we find Osama and supposedly kill him. Mind you, the Shrub's people never could find him.

    8. Unlike Hussain Insane, who we saw hung and die (which was sickening), we do not see even Osama's body.

    9. Our troops supposedly run in and just shoot the place up and kill Osama.

    10. They don't video tape giving the body to any family or anything else in which the public sees the body. Instead, they dump him overboard into the ocean, without any footage or anything.

    11. Oh but they have DNA. That does not prove anything by way of death.

    12. The whole time Obama was making a statement last night, he looked to the right at some camera and not at the American public. Not once did he look at a camera that caused him to look at us directly. Every time I have viewed him, he's looking at his audience, not in the distance some where. What was up with last night?

    Things that make you go humm…. It just does not add up in any way, shape, or form. It seems like sensationalism, as I said before. Not that I don't like Obama, I do. I supported him during the election and even voted for him, but something about this just does not feel right to me. Something feels very wrong about it all.

    I'm not trying to come up a conspiracy of my own, but all this stuff is going through my mind as Obama is making his statement and it continues to mount as the news of what happened to Osama continues.

    It just doesn't make any sense, but yet people are celebrating without really knowing anything. Even if they did know for sure that Osama is dead, it just seems wrong to be out in the streets partying about it. Meanwhile, if Osama isn't really dead, we could be attack terrorist more so if he is dead, because the U.S. is making such statements. If he is dead, we could still be attacked, but maybe not as crazily as if he really is not dead.

    In the end, we are damned if we do and damned if don't. I only hope this is not sensationalism so Obama's popularity will go up and stay up just so he can re-elected on that basis alone. That is not a reason to vote for him, in my mind, and if that is what this is all about… sigh. It just doesn't feel right. Something seems very wrong here and I just can't put my finger on it.

    • Trustyourgut

      TO THE COMMENT ABOVE: Im not a big conspiracy theorist either. I do believe there are some red flags. But your not making some valid points. Just helping you with the facts.

      1. Obama was having so many issues with the Reps., Birthers, Religious Reich etc
      A: True – So what. He has presented the documents that they keep harping about. They all need to calm down, and start fixing the economy.

      2. His popularity was down, even among his supporters.
      A: His popularity was pretty low and its well known that presidents in the past have utilized or even falsified new like this to bring the nation together, or to improve their ratings. Thats one of the reasons why many people think Bush used or assisted in the orchestration of 9/11 and thats why the war in Iraq was started.

      3. He just announced that he is running for re-election.
      A: True – it is that time of year. Doesnt point to a conspiracy in my opinion. If he really wanted to utilize this, he would have announced something like this when he was on the campaign trail running for his next election.

      4. He recently pulled out the "long form" of his birth certificate for the Birthers.
      A: What does this have to do with anything. They have been asking for it for so long. He is a smart politician. Knows how and when to play his cards. He just didnt wanted to spend time childish squabbling. The birthers are Idiots.

      5. Suddenly Osama is said to be dead and they found him hiding out in a compound in the middle of some city or something like in Pakistan. (Randi pointed out that he was not in a cave, like originally stated before, which I had forgotten)
      A: Bush had mentioned he was in a cave. Obama knows that Pakistan is corrupt. Anyone that knows anything about that part of the world knows that Pakistan is a refuge for most terrorists. I was in intelligence and can tell you that is a commonly known fact.

      6. During the election, Obama continued to insist we HAD to go into Pakistan, even though others in gov. were saying, we did not need to go into Pakistan.
      A. Look to the previous answer. Being a former Intelligence Officer, I can tell you that Obama knew what he was talking about.
      Guess what….we went into Pakistan and there he was.

      7. We go into Pakistan and right after Obama announces running again in 2012, we find Osama and supposedly kill him. Mind you, the Shrub's people never could find him.
      —A. Do you know the process that went behind this? Osama released two tapings this year. One of which shows the city he was living in as being flooded. The Intelligence community got some leading information from Gauntanemo. (They released, compiled & tracked a few of his couriers.) Then they looked at homes in the area of the city that had inconsistencies. This home had way higher than normal walls. They burned their trash everyday. This is extremely uncommon.
      8. Unlike Hussain Insane, who we saw hung and die (which was sickening), we do not see even Osama's body.

      9. Our troops supposedly run in and just shoot the place up and kill Osama.
      A: Your not making a point again. They had practiced this maneaver. They even built a replica of the home and practiced for 2 months. Shooting up the place is usually how you kill a terrorist.

      10. They don't video tape giving the body to any family or anything else in which the public sees the body. Instead, they dump him overboard into the ocean, without any footage or anything.
      A: Immediately after being elected, Obama asked his chief of staff to put together a new different plan for finding Obama. He was done with following the old presidents plan of action. He is lucky that it panned out. For over a decade Bush gave over 20 Billion dollars to Pakistan to track and find Osama. Finally Obama comes in, takes a different approach. Gets some good leads. He chose to not bomb the target, which he couldve done. But that might have also had collateral damage and eradicate any definitive proof for him. So he chose to send the seals in.
      They have footage. They just havent released it. The footage & the entire operation was viewed live by the president.
      To answer your questions, They disposed of the body as required by Muslim law. There was a muslim Seaman who performed the right on the boat in accordance with Muslim Law.
      The reason Obama didnt sensationalize it was because it would give the fanatics pics to put up as their Martyr. He also didnt want anyone to worship or put up a shrine for Osama if he left the body there. All in all thats a pretty good reason and shows that the President was thinking ahead.

      11. Oh but they have DNA. That does not prove anything by way of death.
      A. You need to read up on DNA. IF they matched DNA, it proves that was him. Thats a match. So if he is dead, and the DNA matched then they did kill Osama.

      12. The whole time Obama was making a statement last night, he looked to the right at some camera and not at the American public. Not once did he look at a camera that caused him to look at us directly. Every time I have viewed him, he's looking at his audience, not in the distance some where. What was up with last night?
      —–A. Its called a teleprompter. He usually practices a lot of his speeches. This was a speech right after to let the American people know. Youre not really making a point. I agree body language is always important.

      Its funny, because he has done everything to not make it sensational.
      The things I do agree with is.
      Yes the timing of all of this is a little suspicious. when his approval rating is low.

      If it is true, it was carried out and done with extreme professionalism. It hasnt been sensationalized. We can expect them to retaliate. Its not Christianity against Islam, or Us against the middle east or race vs race as the other side, and some Americans and politicians would like you to think. A truly religious person will never celebrate the death of another. But at the same time I am glad that he is not around to kill and murder more people.

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  • http://www.newsandentertainment.com/zFpingpong.html Scott D. Chapman

    It can be a celebration of justice served for those who died in the terrorist act of 9/11. As a catholic, I condone the killing and any killing for the matter for a cause. But I feel that the celebration was not about the killing of Bin Laden as person, but the end of a figure who made life very miserable to thousands of people. Just my thoughts.

    • http://www.houseofbetazed.com Mriana

      Killing for a cause? I'm not so sure that is evolving, but I don't have the answer with such extreme cases either. It's not as simple as saying, "Well, I kill animals for a cause- eating" and a vegetarian or vegan saying, "You don't have to kill other animals to eat and survive." It's just not that simple. Like Manson, we know that Osama was the ring leader of mass murder. Unlike Manson though, we can't just catch him and lock him up for life either. Osama's insanity and mass murder goes far beyond anything Manson did. Manson and his people killed a few hundred people (more or less) and Osama's killed thousands. The insanity is still up there though and as I said, there are no easy or satisfactory answers in which to find an alternative to killing for killing, in this case.

  • http://johnthomasdidymus.blogspot.com johnthomas didymus

    Unfortunately i can only understand the question from the practical perspective of its significance in the war against terrorism: while one may argue that it will send a valuable message to his successors that "don't mess with us; will find you and get you no matter what it takes if you do"; yet these are guys who seem ready to die for what they believe in and are fighting for: Osama's death is skirmish victory in a long war, there is, therefore, not much to celebrate because there are dozens of other Osamas on the factory production line

    • http://www.houseofbetazed.com Mriana

      Exactly my point. While Manson has people who could take his place, it is not as detrimental to society as those who would take Osama's place. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Manson's replacement would not be detrimental to society, it would be, but this insidious "virus" of Osama's is far greater and far more reaching than Manson's and does far more damage in a shorter and faster amount of time. Sadly, I also see the sick puppy (Manson) grinning at Osama's "mastermind", which is just sick. Thus why I say, Osama's "virus" is worse than Manson's, reaches more people and does more damage to society. How many more sick puppy's are sickeningly grinning at such a "mastermind"? I can't think of a more sick vector of mental insanity who has done that much destruction, short of Hitler and even he did not do that much damage to society in one swift blow. It took him a few years to kill over 6 million people and he had more assistants than Osama. The amount of damage and destruction done in one day by Al Qaida, was bigger than any in history, I think. I'm hard pressed to figure out anyone in history who as sick and infecting as Osama.

  • Peggy Dill

    I'm conflicted. I'm glad he can't cause any more harm, but I don't like to see any one loose their lives.

  • http://ntccpasadenatx.org/blogs2 The Torch

    Pivotal, that’s all I can say about May 1, 2011. Not momentous, not joyous, just simply pivotal.

    As an American I felt a whole range of emotions that spanned the first 24 hours after his death. First relief, then gratitude, then joy, and then shame but why? I realized it stemmed from my second yet more important citizenship, that of being a Christian.

    To me my dual citizenship has always been understood but intertwined. They both existed side by side in a nice neat little package which is the majority of my adult life. But during this 24hr time span they were at odds within me. As an American I rejoice at the fall of our biggest single enemy. As a Christian I am conflicted by a huge amount of scriptural insight gained over years of study.

    Many have gone on record justifying their American “pride” by a scriptural presentation of the children of Israel rejoiced at the fall of Goliath at the hand of David. And that the “winning of battles brought about the sound of merriment and revelry in the camps and cities throughout the whole of the Ancient Jewish world” they state. And all of this is true. But there are some equally true was the cheering over the slaying of the Philistine justified and warranted or national remorse and reflection over what had gone wrong to make it necessary that a young boy would have to rise up and do what a man should have done? The victory is undisputable; the reaction it brought is what I think needs to be brought into question. TO READ MORE go to my blog

    http://ntccpasadenatx.org/blogs2/?p=1429